Eating ecologically and ethically

[Cerberus]

Hi all,

I am starting this topic knowing full well that it will be controversial to some, as it taps into some of our deepest habits and belief systems. However, I do feel that the topic is ripe for discussion, especially in environmental circles.

To kick it off, I am going to post some links to some articles for those who would like to participate in this discussion to read through or use as a reference. The articles are well referenced with reliable sources from what I can gather.

EatEco - Eating Ecologically Sustainable Diets

9 October: the day humanity starts eating the planet

http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/libr...d/A0701E00.pdf

There are many issues to be considered here. There is the resource cost of producing food, the resource costs of processing that food, transport costs, storage costs, the expanding population, rising health issues that seem to be highly correlated with changing dietary habits (see "The China Study" and many recent articles on cancer risks) and there is also the question of good old fashioned ethics.

It's a big global topic, for an ever growing population on this earth, and the implications seem to be huge in even making small changes, for better or worse.

Here we go then......

[Johnny Electriglide]

Humans started "eating the planet" when max sustainable at the average standard of living was reached around 1900. Since then 2/3 of the soil and groundwater is gone, and soil, air and water polluted to way past absorption levels to the point of global warming. Depletion of our ocean stocks and even the reduction in total CO2 absorption ability with deforestation.
Humans evolved with a widely varied diet in most areas, of 10% average animal meat. Trying to change humans to vegans would give a few more years, but overpopulation has become an unstoppable nightmare Juggernaut of epic, unprecedented proportions. The last time a type of organism did total change to the biosphere were the cyanobacteria that gave us the oxygen atmosphere between 3 and 4 billion years ago.
The thing that desperate people are prone to do is cannibalism, and I'm ready!!!

[Bowman]

Hi Cerberus,

I think you might be preaching to the converted here!

Reading all the threads on this forum there are two constantly recurring themes, population increase and consumerism.

Obviously there is no way to change peoples eating habits overnight, and this is a massive global issue, maybe here in the UK we should start with VAT on food? The more links in the chain the more VAT, if high quality ethically farmed unprocessed food cost the same or less than over processed junk I suspect things would change quite quickly.

Problem is how do you get that round business? Governments should love the idea of more cash coming in.

(I'm being naive here aren't I?)

[Homer]

I was about to spend thousands on solar and been reading up on hybrid cars.

After reading up on those links and others such as http://geosci.uchicago.edu/~gidon/pa...ri/nutriEI.pdf

I now will be buying a vegie cook book for $19.95 and doing more than spending those thousands would of. (looks like my grocery bill will be lower too, seems it won't cost me like big boys want us to believe). Too easy.

[Bowman]

My wife's a veggie, I'm not, my five year eats meat, my two year old doesn't. As a family we take the view that we are much happier eating food where we know where it's come from. We never eat junk food or soft drinks. Neither my wife nor I are particularly evangelical when it comes to organic/veggie, what we do insist on is knowing that those who provide our food do so sustainably. We also cook every meal from scratch using fresh or frozen ingredients, some people might find it a chore, but the kids love it (you wouldn't believe the mess a two and five can make). Got a great recipe for quick tortillas (children optional).

[Corey]

As I am of the Extreme Poverty. I am having more and more difficulty with eating ethically and organic. Prices are going up and as it goes up I will be forced to go back to the unsustainable unhealthy mono-crop and overly processed foods. I do not have access to farm able soil so garden is out of question.
The food shelves around here for the poor is getting slimmer and slimmer and a lot of the food is unhealthy type or junk foods or mono foods(eating peas day in and out). its either eat it or starve so to speak. Regardless that eating it destroys our health making us even more of a burden on society because we have bad food related illness which then causes us to seek medical Attention which tax payers pay for.

Its real difficult for me to accept that I live in a country of excess, Yet I will be among the first to die when it hits the fan such as those in Africa and Asia and elsewhere. What an irony in that huh? Not looking for sympathy or anything just trying to put a very human picture on it is all. A real one at that.

For the time being though I forgo on any luxury items and save all my money for food, rent, and hard line phone for emergency.
the bulk of my food consist of produce from farmers market (organic) a loaf of home baked bread form there as well. one pound of meat grass fed no chemicals or hormones. try to limit foods from grocery store since it is too difficult to find any local provided foods there. Also if I can find anything at food shelf only I have to be more relaxed in regards to processed and non-organic. At least the food there is free and if not eaten is burned or trashed so its no waste vs if I not use it at all.

Got to go for now time for an apointment for my anxiety/panic
chow till later

[Cerberus]

Bowman, you just hit on a point that often perplexes me..

The amazing mystery of how over-processed foods can cost so much less that fresh, local produce.... it's just bizarre.. more packaging, more handling, more weird ingredients, more processing, more storage... and yet, cheaper in many cases than just buying simple, old-fashioned, in-season ingredients and cooking from "scratch" aka "real food".

I think extra tax for every link in the chain is a great idea. Over here in Australia, fresh food is GST free, but it doesn't seem to motivate people to eat more healthy fresh food.

I think somehow, junkfood just has to become really uncool, and the art of cooking needs to be recaptured and nurtured in society. So glad to hear you all love cooking! I am also a bit of a cook, and love to fiddle with new flavours with seasonal veggies, did a gorgeous beet dish last night, simmered in freshly squeezed orange juice, a dash of maple syrup, some zest and sea salt... it was awesome! I have a wonderful burrito recipe already, but would love to try yours out if you want to post it.

Over here, there is a move by parents to try and have junkfood advertising banned... but of course, the Gov won't hear of it... they say it won't make any difference... kind of weird don't you think? If it made no difference to sales, they wouldn't advertise in the first place... this is the kind of political codswallop that delays progress.

[Bowman]

I think a lot of people don't have a clue how to cook unless they've a recipe book in front of them, why don't parents just learn how to cook rather than trying to ban advertising? I think this is the kind of point where personal responsibility comes in, if you're chef get down to the school and give the kids cooking lessons/exhibitions. If you're a farmer get the kids down to the farm, hook up with a chef and throw a barbecue.

I'll type up the flat bread recipe, it's from Casa Moro by Sam and Sam Clark, highly recommended.

[Corey]

Bowman:
Part of the reason parents forgot how to cook is how long it took to actually cook a complete meal up to 1 hour average. In a busy lifestyle set by big business there isn't time for this.

I been making my own hot cereal using a base of a 7 grain Bulk ground cereal, oatmeal, 2 or 3 types of raisins, coconut, dried apples, vanilla all organic except vanilla which is too expensive for me. Oh ya an some organic milk or (almond/soy milk from local poor food shelf if they have it).
Still not getting all of my vitamins and minerals that prepackaged cereals. fortify with.

Cerberus:
I think the reason that it costs so much less for processed foods is that once the infrastructure is in place there is very little human involvement in the whole process for its mostly done by machines and few inspectors to make sure its operating right.

Tomatoes for example takes many people to plant and harvest.

More mechanized it is with fewer people involved in process the cheaper it is. Man power is the greatest expense in the whole process. Especially when you include health coverage, vacations, overtime, retirement, etc.

[Bowman]

I treat cooking as a something of a leisure pursuit, from that perspective an hour a day isn't a big deal. It gives my wife and I a bit of time to chat, or I listen to the radio. I reckon the easiest way to create more time in life is to ditch the TV (and spend less time on forums like this!)

One of the biggest things with preparing fresh food is practice and a decent set of knives, I know that sounds obvious, but how many people actually do it enough to get good at it?

Actually tomatoes compared to many other hand picked fruit are not that labor intensive. I used to pick the things as a student.