Say no to plastic bags

[Karl]

Some more information on the general topic of plastic wastes and their environmental impact / sustainability:

The world's rubbish dump: a garbage tip that stretches from Hawaii to Japan - Environment - The Independent

The plastic “trash vortex” that has been reported for the Pacific Ocean – stretching from about 500 nautical miles off the Californian coast, across the northern Pacific, past Hawaii and almost as far as Japan.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by UKBullDog

I am no expert in plastics so I am talking from a laymans point of view. Would it not be dangerous to have bacteria attack plastic to degrade it? What if they start "nibbling" on plastics we need to last for a long time? That would be a disaster.

I have seen some more recent information related to “biodegradable” plastics:

Degradable Plastic
Oxo-Biodegradable Plastic is truly Green | EcoSafe Degradable Plastics

According to those “product descriptions”:

Quote:
“The length of time it takes for the plastic to degrade totally can be “programmed” at the time of manufacture and can be as little as a few months or as much as a few years.

It will also be consumed by bacteria and fungi after the additive has reduced the molecular structure to a level that permits micro-organisms access to the carbon and hydrogen within. The material has then ceased to be a plastic and has become a food source. This type of degradable plastic can therefore be properly described as fully "biodegradable".

Biodegradable plastic have the same properties as conventional plastic products. It is water and air tight, can be printed on, can be used together with food products, is transparent and compares in strength too.”

It seems that they use different amounts of some "additive" or inhibitor depending on the expected consumer life-cycle of the plastic, so that the micro-organisms would not degrade the material before it is finished being used. However, what would be interesting is whether these programmed times are "calibrated" for any particular climate; for example, there have been problems with the earlier technologies which did not cater for areas of higher humidity, and when exported to such areas for use as a "green" technology they started to degrade too early.

[windy1]

It seems the pressure is on to get supermarkets to get rid of the free plastic bags they give out by the million. I notice that several of the supermarkets are now offering a "bag for life" idea, which means they give you a stronger, less degradable bag, which you get replaced when it fails (presumably these returned bags then get recyled).

The plastic bag is so prevalent around the world that it may take decades to see the end of them. I expect part of the problem is that people don't tend to carry bags around with them, when they do a bit of opportunistic shopping. Perhaps we need to build cotton bags into our clothing, so we can just whip one out when they are needed?

[Mollyh]

San Francisco (where I live) and some other cities in the US have now banned plastic bags to some extent. Here, for example, grocery stores that sell over a certain amount in revenues cannot offer plastic bags. (They do have paper bags, many of which get doubled-up, but that's another story.) The program is now being expanded to include drugstores as well.

All of the shops now offer relatively cheap reusable bags however, usually selling for about a dollar. My favorite ones can be balled up into a little packet about the size of a fist, which fits easily in my backpack or purse so I use it all the time. Whole Foods sells one made from recycled plastic bottles.

Karl, with respect to your think globally, act locally post, well-said on all points!

[Corey]

Originally Posted by windy1

It seems the pressure is on to get supermarkets to get rid of the free plastic bags they give out by the million. I notice that several of the supermarkets are now offering a "bag for life" idea, which means they give you a stronger, less degradable bag, which you get replaced when it fails (presumably these returned bags then get recyled).

The plastic bag is so prevalent around the world that it may take decades to see the end of them. I expect part of the problem is that people don't tend to carry bags around with them, when they do a bit of opportunistic shopping. Perhaps we need to build cotton bags into our clothing, so we can just whip one out when they are needed?

One word "convenience" is why companies and other groups will fight to keep it around..

In other areas like at the library I suggested that the monitor to the computer go to hibernate when not being used which is most of the time, then turn on when either the mouse or keyboard is moved. They told me one word why they won't ever do it "convenience"
Same with demo TV and other electrical stuff from stores that are on all the time for "convenience" of not having to turn it on and off when not in use.

Why are we so hung up on luxury claiming luxury is necessity rather than luxury it is.


By the way I use Cotton tote bags and I have to fight with businesses to NOT give me any bags or napkins. For they have the company logo on it which does not get shown once the food or product is in my own tote.

[Mollyh]

Corey, I swear the perception of convenience is going to put me in a mental institution one day. What is so inconvenient about moving a mouse? So inconvenient about changing a power setting ONCE?

Is there an emoticon for banging my head on the wall?

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Corey

...
By the way I use Cotton tote bags and I have to fight with businesses to NOT give me any bags or napkins. For they have the company logo on it which does not get shown once the food or product is in my own tote.

Its not as if they were paying us to advertise their products or services - we already pay THEM money for the purchase, and after that we are expected to give them further advertisement (in exchange for "convenience" in carrying the items home). And later, when the bag is conveniently reused for some other purpose, the free advertising continues even when that use is unrelated to them or their product...

I suppose this is one instance where "business sustainability" and "corporate responsibility" mean two entirely different things (Corporate Responsibility or Business Sustainability?)

[Johnny Electriglide]

Plastic bags, really all plastic packaging, should be changed to biodegradable. Some plastics are carcinogenic (PVC) and don't break down for many thousands of years. The six huge gyres of floating plastic pollution in the world's oceans, and the loss of landfills within 10 years are very big and disgusting problems. The twice the size of Texas gyre between California and Hawaii is the worst. Waste is a function of population, and habits. California has converted to mostly 66% more per capita trash producing people (Mexicans, from 1995 research) from invasion and over-immigration in the past 25 years, and this is where most of the trash in that gyre comes from, by wind. Then we have places where, because the government went broke, trash has piled up 4 feet high with narrow paths through it, in Africa. I expect it to happen to California cities, too, as their state government goes further in the red. A portent for world conditions--broke governments and overflowing waste of all kinds, leading to a higher disease rate. Biodegradable packaging will help, some.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Johnny Electriglide

The twice the size of Texas gyre between California and Hawaii is the worst. Waste is a function of population, and habits. California has converted to mostly 66% more per capita trash producing people (Mexicans, from 1995 research) from invasion and over-immigration in the past 25 years, and this is where most of the trash in that gyre comes from, by wind.

Unless I am misreading this statement, it appears you are suggesting that the "trash vortex" in the Pacific has been caused (or worsened) by Mexican immigrants in California. That idea seems improbable and illogical, since the Pacific coastline is shared by both the Northern part of California (which is currently part of the USA) and the Southern part of California (which is still part of Mexico).

So, are you seriously suggesting that there is something about the immigration process that causes them to generate more plastic wastes upon the crossing of an artificial boundary line? Or is it that they are simply more conscientious about waste disposal practices when in Mexico?

If you are seriously alleging that the "trash vortex" is caused by Mexicans along the US Pacific coast (and not along the Mexico Pacific coast), you will need to explain why (and how) this happens exactly. Is there an underwater wall that divides the northern and southern coastal environment? That would be the only rational explanation for how plastic waste from Mexico does not enter the Pacific "trash vortex".

What about the rest of the US east coast or even the Canadian Pacific - does none of the garbage come from there, or is it also subject to the bizarre form of oceanographic currents and circulation patterns that divide the Mexican-Californian nearshore waters from the US-Californian nearshore waters? Such a phenomenon would have far reaching consequences beyond the dispersal and distribution plastic trash in the marine ecosystem (e.g., for biological population dynamics...).

[Johnny Electriglide]

The Pacific(plastic bags, mostly) trash gyre twice as big as Texas, one of at least six in the world, goes from near the California Coastline, Northern Baja, and north to northern California. About 100 miles from the coast west and southwest to within 300 miles of Hawaii. Some has traveled from other places in the Pacific, some from illegal dumping.
Like I said, >>>it is a function of overpopulation and people's habits.>>> The 1995 study of trash production in >>>"Trash: the Looming Crisis", listed Mexicans as producing 66% more trash per capita than Americans(actual data). It is easily verified by visiting their enclaves.
The article on the plastic trash floating in the gyres stated that most came from the nearest coastline by wind. The overpopulation of California isn't caused by historic Americans, but by legal and illegal invasion from Mexico(just by the math). Most of the liberal whites, who are now the minority, are conscientious about their trash and recycle. The major costs to the California government are from illegal and legal Mexican invaders allowed and pandered to (feloniously) by the liberals(and many "conservatives", the law is Sec8USC1324). Both groups don't actually see the massive gyre of trash they have contributed a great deal to, and most of the whites(and some immigrants, and others) care enough to not just throw trash in the street. The major amount of trash is basically foreign made(by the math), and much that does go to dumps, also gets blown by the heavy winds(the light plastic bags especially).
Yes, indeed, Mexicans are, >on average,< pigs. Over-breeding(4.4 TFR in 24 years) and 80 IQ(data from "the Bell Curve"), at that, >on average>. Certainly not a positive help to overpopulation, trash, and the reduce, reuse, recycle, go solar environmental movement, or planetary sustainablity. If the truth hurts, too bad, but that is a major source of the plastic bags blowing into the ocean.