How can we start making sustainability a reality?

[FabianPattberg]

Today’s discussion is about the question you might ask yourself after reading about the meaning of sustainability discussed in this blog entry http://www.sustainabilityblog.org/20...inability/.How can we make sustainability a reality?I have asked myself this question many times before have always hit a wall because this question sounds so big. I found it very useful to identify [...]

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[Patrick]

I actually don't think that sustainability can be reached within the confines of a capitalist system, since economic growth always entails the use of more non-renewable resources (there has never been a case where growth was achieved without using more resources). Profit is unsustainable by its very definition. If we want sustainability than a new economic system is required where basically, non-renewable resources would be rationed to industry at a rate which allowed them to develop renewable alternatives, without completely wrecking the bottom line.

Politically, I think there are too many powerful people interested in maintaining business as usual. I think the chance for voluntary conservation on the part of governments is nil, since they are manipulated by the businesses which profit from continued consumption. If anything they will do everything they can to increase consumption. Remember Bush "go shopping America" and Dick Cheney "The American way of life is non-negotiable".

I think the only way to sustainability is for the "pain factor" to significantly increase. We are having problems in my city (Austin, TX) with getting the political backing for a city wide rail mass transit sytem. The solution is to increase central city density to the point where it is too painful to drive due to the number of cars, and then people will vote for transit. In the interim though we have several years of horrid traffic and smog to look forward to. Likewise, the only things I think that will lead to significant change are:
1) much higher gas prices. Try $5/gallon. I think that would lead to major changes in transportation policy.
2) increased severity of climate change effects - eventually governments will be forced to tax the emissions that lead to climate change, further increasing the cost of gas.

In conclusion, the only thing that will make the average American alter their behavior is more financial pain in the form of higher fuel prices.

[Corey]

I have to agree with Patrick regarding our Capitalist system. But in detail how do we get those in power positions to listen short of shooting them in the head? Hell its hard to get the average citizen to even do the right thing.

Here is an example not realated dirrectly. I am a bike/ pedestrian We have a state law that says when a pedestrian or bike They have TOTAL and AUTOMATIC rightaway. Meaning a car can not enter the crosswalk while the pedestrian or bike is in the crosswalk regardles to which lane the pedestrian is in.

I live in Rochester MN USA We were rated the best place to live in America back in the mid-late 90's

There is a 4 lane highway near a major grocerie store which has a light intersection with pedestrian cross walks and pedestrian lights.

Every single time a pedestrian or a bike goes through that intersection alone is playing chicken with the cars just to get across the freaking road. The pedestrians and bikes push the cross walk button that changes the pedestrian light to walk and almost every single car ignores the law and races through the intersection regardles of the pedestrians and bikes in the intersecion crosswalk.

Why do they do it? No fear of consequences............ To the driver they will win every encounter with a bike or pedestrian thus they get cocky as a result.

When I am on a bike I have to look them right in the eye and put my hand up to tell them to stop for my right away and they ignore the fact that I am even there. They only slow enough that they don't mark their cars from hitting my bike. I even have drivers HONKING at me when they KNOW I have the right away by LAW.

If we can't get people to do the right thing at the intersection that only costs them a couple of seconds of drive time then how do we expect them to do the right thing with regards to population, resourse use, and environment? Without putting a gun to their head and telling them the consiquences if you break the law is a bullet in the brain pan?

A 5$ a gal price for gas is a good start for a doable consiquece that people will actually respond too.
It will be extreemly difficult to get corperations to go with it, in that that is money taken away from their profit. There is only so much money to go around........

[Patrick]

This is a bit off-topic:
Corey, they have done numerous studies showing that lights, crosswalks, signs, etc actually make things more dangerous for both pedestrians and for motorists. When driving is made easy like this a motorist can allow their mind to wander, and so their reaction time is significantly increased. Remove the sings and lights and the motorist is forced to wake up and pay attention.

People are products of their environment. Design a situation where motorists can drive fast without thinking about it, and motorist and pedestrian fatalities go up. Design a place where a motorist can not possibly drive above a certain speed, and they will not drive above that speed. One way of doing this is to abandon the suburban street heirarchy which has replaced the traditional grid. One of the orignal motivations for the heirarchy was the faster vehicle speeds attained by removing right angle turns. We now know that is a terrible idea especially for a residential area where children might be playing in the street - and in fact you tend to see fewer children playing in the street where there is a heirarchy, and more children playing where there is a grid because it is safer.

My point as it relates to implementing sustainability is that we cannot rely on the goodwill of people to change their behavior. People are products of their environment and their current environment encourages consumption and waste. So long as our elected leaders tell us that "The American way of life is non-negotiable" and to "Go shopping America", we will not change at all. Not to mention all the ridiculous crap they put on MTV like "cribs" which promotes materialism, or in the words of Dave Chappele "to get people to value stupid shit." If we want people to change, change their environment.

[Corey]

Why I been illegally crossing in the middle where there is no signs or intersection. trafic only goes 2 directions instead of 8 if you include the occational "U" turn in an intersection.

Oh the drivers "KNOW" I am their or they wouldn't honk or lay on the accelerator within a couple of feet of missing you to the point of actually squeeling their tires to scare you into not using that intersection.

[Bowman]

For sustainability to become a reality requires the submission by all of us of many of the freedoms we take for granted. In return we will need to take personal responsibility for not just our personal futures but for those of a global society generations from today.

Sadly I don't think it's human nature to relinquish freedoms and opportunities when the greatest gains of that sacrafice are not to ones person and are reliant on a simultaneous commitment of unprecedented magnitude.

Not very cheeerful I know, but how might people react if they really understood the magnitude of the risks we are taking?