SustainabilityForum.Com - Your Global Sustainability Community!

Go Back   SustainabilityForum.Com - Your Global Sustainability Community! > Main Discussion & News Forum > Sustainability News

Sustainability News Do you have interesting news related to Sustainability that you would like to share with us? This is the place for it.


Welcome to SustainabilityForum.com, your online sustainability community!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view some discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login please contact our support.

Rate This Thread - Disinformation Campaign Against Biofuels.

Views: 651 - Replies: 10  
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 18-07-2007, 09:43 PM
Shenandoah Shenandoah is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8
Bookmark with:
Submit to Technorati Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to StumbleUpon Submit to Yahoo! This Submit to Live Favorites Submit to Google Submit to Facebook
Submit as News to:
Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Hugg Submit to Care2
Default Disinformation Campaign Against Biofuels

“Am I Paranoid or is a Massive Disinformation Campaign Against Biofuels Underway?

When the first round of inaccurate and disingenuous comments against biofuels hit the media, I dismissed it as ignorance. After all, it was coming from lawyers, TV analysts, and economists-none of whom had the slightest understanding of science, the capabilities of the American agricultural community, or the engineering of process plants. There were never any backup for their imaginative disasters and I felt that time would thoroughly embarrass them.

Strangely, when the data that proved the naysayers terribly wrong was published it stayed in the specialty press and never found its way into the mainstream media. To make the situation worse it now appears that the unfounded and erroneous information has wormed its way into the nation’s collective consciousnesses. I have even heard environmentalists spouting the implanted memes.

The accusations are:

1.The biofuels program is a waste of taxpayer money..
2.Ethanol is “inefficient” compared to gasoline.
3.Ethanol from corn is taking food away from the poor and raising food prices
4.There will not be enough biofuel produced to make a difference (or conversely there will be a glut and the companies will go bankrupt.)

There is the definite implication that we should once again put ourselves in the hands of the oil companies-anything we try to do will only make the energy situation worse.

I would like to discuss these issues one by one over the next days and provide some hard data. These data are well recognized by those in the field. They are driving the favorable position of biofuels in the new federal energy bill. For some reason they are not being discussed in the mainstream media either purposely or due to ignorance

Let us first examine the economic impact of biofuels in 2006.

The following is a summary from the report “Contribution of the Ethanol Industry to the Economy of the United States” The summary and full report are found at these two sites:

RFA - Media Center - RFA Press Releases - 2007 Archive -Ethanol Industry Providing Sound Returns on Investment

RFA - Resource Center - Reports & Studies.

The most important points are:

1.In 2006 the federal government received tax revenues of $2.7 billion simply from the construction and operation of biofuel refineries. This is in comparison to the $2.5 billion tax exemptions granted by the federal government to oil refiners who blend ethanol-and cited by naysayers as a “waste of money”. In addition the ethanol industry will generate nearly $2.2billion of additional tax revenue for State and Local governments

2.The American ethanol industry alone produced nearly five billion gallons of ethanol. This meant that the US needed to import 206 million fewer barrels of oil-valued at $11.2 billion. This is money that all stayed in the American economy instead of flowing out of the country.

3.The operation and construction of ethanol bio-refineries spurred the creation of 163,034 jobs in all sectors of the economy in 2006. These include nearly 20,000 jobs in America’s manufacturing sector -- American jobs making ethanol from grain produced by American farmers

Not included in the report was the expected savings to the federal government in grain subsidies of several billion dollars because the price of corn now exceeds the supported price. We no longer need to pay farmers not to grow corn while buying oil from foreign nations. They can now grow the corn and sell it to produce a homegrown fuel.

To me this just does not sound like the “economic disaster” and “waste of taxpayer money” that I have heard expressed on both network and channel news programs. CNBC has been especially aggressive. I have not heard these numbers mentioned or challenged. It would seem to be newsworthy.

I would be very interested in your comments.

I will provide numbers for the efficiency, food versus fuel, and potential quantity of biofuels in subsequent posts.

Best regards to everyone.

Last edited by Shenandoah; 18-07-2007 at 10:22 PM. Reason: correct link
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 18-07-2007, 10:28 PM
Corey Corey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Rochester MN
Posts: 485
Bookmark with:
Submit to Technorati Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to StumbleUpon Submit to Yahoo! This Submit to Live Favorites Submit to Google Submit to Facebook
Submit as News to:
Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Hugg Submit to Care2
Default

First of all, I am from said movement against cash crop biofuels.(Biofuels derived from waste such as frying oil is ok)

1. The movement has nothing to do with economy but since Americans only speak in those terms we show how it impacts the economy.

2. Are problem is not money it is the total cost factor out side of money that is getting us into an up roar.

3. It is about the amount of clean water taken in a non sustainable manner we have the problem with. We are facing a water crisis because we are consuming clean water faster than earth can regenerate. This water needs to be saved for basic necessity to live. drinking, cooking, bathing, production of food.

4. We have a problem with the competition for land use which competes with the available land for food production. Or forests and other sensitive areas are being plowed under for bio fuel crops.

5. This is destroying the ecosystem, for a short temporary step for the soul purpose of greed. There was no long term planning involved to ensure that it would not harm the environment to the point of causing extinction by 2100.

6. It is about the leaching of the soils nutrients by taking crops repeatedly from the same spot to the point plants refuse to grow on there own. Dieing plants provide the nutrients for the next generation of plants. Bio fuel crops interrupt this cycle making it unsustainable.

7. Biofuels was the gimmick of the oil companies for it would only require a minimal change to their infrastructure which is the soul perpose to keep profits up at the expense of everything else.

8. Since biofuels is a temporary step all infrastructure is going to be wasted. This infrastructure for the most part cannot be recycled. Further depleting our limited depleting resources.

9. The water from the process in making biofuels is contaminated and is not fit for life's uses. this water winds up back in the rivers polluting the rivers further. this is having an accumulative effect with everything else we put in the water.

10. It is immoral to pursue a path that benefits only a few at the expense of the many.(includes the future generations not here yet.)

11. It is a fact that cash crops for biofuels dirrectly competes with the available land for food production.(food is a necessity Bio fuel is not) cash crop Biofuels is the soul purpose too feed our gluttonous ways that is destroying our earth.

12. there are so many farmers and so much time in the day. Time spent producing cash crop biofuels is time taken away from producing food thus more direct conflict with food

13. our grain surplus supply in the USA is at a 25 year low thanks to biofuels.

14. As it gets warmer and it rains less more food crops are going to fail thus the land being used by biofuels is extra land needed to plant a surplus crop too offset for failed crops.

15. This is not misinformation We are considering the "Total cost" When the total cost is factored with the total cost of gasoline it is proven that biofuels is worse than gasoline. Look up olive oil biofuels produced in Asia they are cutting down the rain forest to make room for the olive oil trees.

16. cash crop for bio fuel is all mono crop and thus bad for the environment due to lack of diversity. 1 or 3 different crops is not diverse. 30 or more plant species is diverse.

17. Since People in the industrial world ignore the environment for the most part we are forced to speak in there language thus we speak in economic terms since most everybody ignored the science about global warming and species die off. We also speaking in a way that they see how it effects them more negatively than the benefits gained.

18. The taxes they claimed to have received I suspect involved ALL FUEL not just bio fuel as a misdirection by the "Burning Bush " Administration which is a corrupt figure head for energy companies.(I am saying this statement as a American Patriot fighting against corruption.)

19. Your number two statment of important factors sound a spinoff from an energy company misdirrection to reality. 206 million barrels a year.....That is alot of fresh underground drinking water to waste!!!!!

20. Mono cropping Is on its way out it has demonstrated to be too destructive to the ecosystem and is completly unsustainable.

21. When your starving and wonderwhy there is no food just remember you used it all too power your glutonous ways.
:peace:
__________________
We can talk till we are blue in the face, The real impact of change is when we take action based on information we have talked about. So lets do more action to create change.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 19-07-2007, 01:22 PM
Green Living's Avatar
Green Living Green Living is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
Posts: 7
Send a message via Skype™ to Green Living
Bookmark with:
Submit to Technorati Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to StumbleUpon Submit to Yahoo! This Submit to Live Favorites Submit to Google Submit to Facebook
Submit as News to:
Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Hugg Submit to Care2
Default

Hi

My suspicions were raised whenI tried to filter chip shop oil treated to produce bio-diesel. The stuff coming out of my test reededs was full of fats and oils, which could not be chemically or biologically broken down. It struck me that it was a tad irrisponsible of those guys stuffing this effluent down their drains, which would eventually block up.

It struck me that home made bio-fuels seemed to be more about tax avoidance, than green and friendly. As the resulting effluent is certainly not green and friendly, then what other reason could there be to do this. And as you clearly point out, the area of land required is huge, reducing our ability to feed ourselves.

So thank you for your reply. It is worth considering
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 19-07-2007, 04:11 PM
Ian Jones Ian Jones is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1
Bookmark with:
Submit to Technorati Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to StumbleUpon Submit to Yahoo! This Submit to Live Favorites Submit to Google Submit to Facebook
Submit as News to:
Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Hugg Submit to Care2
Default

Shenandoah
I read recently (Brown) 2007 if all grain crops in USA converted to ethanol it would meet only 16% of US vehicle fuel demand. A 150 litre tank of ethanol is made from enough grain to feed one person for an entire year. Is this correct?

Also read elsewhere that a Bushell of Corn in 2006 was $1.46 now over $4 and in Germany barley malt price has soared by more than 40 per cent, to around 385 euros from around 182 euros years ago, due to bio-fuel developments according to the Bavarian Brewers' Association. deteriorate

The growth of palms for oil - for bio-diesel for the European market is now the main cause of deforestation in Indonesia, and it is likely soon to become responsible for the extinction of the orang-utan in the wild.

Also research by Dutch consultancy Delft Hydraulics that because of deforestation and drainage of peat-lands, every tonne of palm oil created in South-East Asia results in up to 33 tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions - 10 times as much as conventional petroleum.

Can you enlighten me if these things are part of a disinformation campaign and if so who is orchestrating it and why is this campaign happening?
Thanks
Ian

Last edited by Ian Jones; 19-07-2007 at 04:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 19-07-2007, 10:26 PM
founder founder is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 46
Bookmark with:
Submit to Technorati Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to StumbleUpon Submit to Yahoo! This Submit to Live Favorites Submit to Google Submit to Facebook
Submit as News to:
Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Hugg Submit to Care2
Default Plug-in-Hybrid changes the fuel szene completely

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Jones View Post
Shenandoah
I read recently (Brown) 2007 if all grain crops in USA converted to ethanol it would meet only 16% of US vehicle fuel demand.
That's true for the primtive ICE cars today.

But the next generation of cars will be plug-in-hybrid cars able to drive at last 100km in electric only mode.

Hybrid engine for Renault Kangoo

So they will drive in average
80% electric only mode
20% hybrid mode

The average energy consumption will also be lower than today energy wasting US cars.

So by reducing the liquid fuel consumption to 16%, biofuel could even deliver 100% of the liquid fuel consumption.

For electric only mode, photovoltaic and wind energy can deliver the electricity.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 21-07-2007, 07:34 PM
Shenandoah Shenandoah is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8
Bookmark with:
Submit to Technorati Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to StumbleUpon Submit to Yahoo! This Submit to Live Favorites Submit to Google Submit to Facebook
Submit as News to:
Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Hugg Submit to Care2
Default

Ian
Thank you for taking the interest to reply.

Before we look at the numbers let me comment that a comparison of grain planting with total gasoline use is meaningless. Grain plantings are set based upon current market needs. Total grain capability would be meaningful but these numbers are currently in debate and include political factors. Also 15% of gasoline replaced by grain derived ethanol is a currently acceptable goal by the industry. Biofuels form other feedstocks will make a major contribution also but currently corn derived ethanol is the major game in the US.
Now let's look at their math-even though it is not a useful statistic.

The 2007 grain plantings for the US in 2007 are

Corn 92.9 million acres
Soybeans 64.1 million acres
Winter wheat 45.1 million acres


Let us just consider the total corn plantings.
and again-this is for math only-no one is suggesting touching the food corn supply

But if all corn production was converted to ethanol It would manufacture 92.9 million x200 bu corn/acre x 2.9 gal/bu corn=53.8 billion gallons of ethanol
In 2006 we consumed 146 billion gallons of gasoline
At fuel equivalents in FFV vehicles (see my forthcoming post on relative efficiency)-corn alone would account for 36%-well above the 16% Brown cited. Even if you take ethanol burned in a gasoline engine efficiency the number is 25%- So their math is quire wrong. This makes me suspicious. However, the big misinformation is in coming up with a meaningless statistic.

A 150 liter tank of ethanol is 150/3.79 = 39.6 gallons which could be made from 39.6/2.9=13.7 bushels of corn. Can someone live a year on 13.7 bushels of corn? I wouldn't want to. Making the ethanol would also leave 13.7*17 =232 lbs of high protein distiller’s grain for a quality cattle feed. A 40 gallon fuel tank is quite large. Looks like anothe selected statistic to me

Corn was never $1.46 per bushel in 2006. It was 2.00 for the first seven months but jumped to over $4 for a few months in 2007 when the ethanol surge created a temporary shortage. The market forces took hold, planting has increased drastically and the spot cost has dropped to $3.33 as of Friday this week. It has varied between $1.50 and $4.50 over the last 25 years. The farm cost in food prices is only .20 per dollar. The rest is transportation, packaging, etc. See the following.


http://www.micorn.org/downloads/News...ood_Prices.pdf

I don’t know about Germany or the Indonesian situation -barley malt and bio-diesel from palm oil are insignificant as a source for biofuels in the US.

Once again, thanks for the information.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 21-07-2007, 07:38 PM
Shenandoah Shenandoah is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8
Bookmark with:
Submit to Technorati Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to StumbleUpon Submit to Yahoo! This Submit to Live Favorites Submit to Google Submit to Facebook
Submit as News to:
Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Hugg Submit to Care2
Default Reply to Ian

Ian
Thank you for taking the interest to reply.

Before we look at the numbers let me comment that a comparison of grain planting with total gasoline use is meaningless. Grain plantings are set based upon current market needs. Total grain capability would be meaningful but these numbers are currently in debate and include political factors. Also 15% of gasoline replaced by grain derived ethanol is a currently acceptable goal by the industry. Biofuels form other feedstocks will make a major contribution also but currently corn derived ethanol is the major game in the US.
Now let's look at their math-even though it is not a useful statistic.

The 2007 grain plantings for the US in 2007 are

Corn 92.9 million acres
Soybeans 64.1 million acres
Winter wheat 45.1 million acres


Let us just consider the total corn plantings.
and again-this is for math only-no one is suggesting touching the food corn supply

But if all corn production was converted to ethanol It would manufacture 92.9 million x200 bu corn/acre x 2.9 gal/bu corn=53.8 billion gallons of ethanol
In 2006 we consumed 146 billion gallons of gasoline
At fuel equivalents in FFV vehicles (see my forthcoming post on relative efficiency)-corn alone would account for 36%-well above the 16% Brown cited. Even if you take ethanol burned in a gasoline engine efficiency the number is 25%- So their math is quire wrong. This makes me suspicious. However, the big misinformation is in coming up with a meaningless statistic.

A 150 liter tank of ethanol is 150/3.79 = 39.6 gallons which could be made from 39.6/2.9=13.7 bushels of corn. Can someone live a year on 13.7 bushels of corn? I wouldn't want to. Making the ethanol would also leave 13.7*17 =232 lbs of high protein distiller’s grain for a quality cattle feed. A 40 gallon fuel tank is quite large. Looks like anothe selected statistic to me

Corn was never $1.46 per bushel in 2006. It was 2.00 for the first seven months but jumped to over $4 for a few months in 2007 when the ethanol surge created a temporary shortage. The market forces took hold, planting has increased drastically and the spot cost has dropped to $3.33 as of Friday this week. It has varied between $1.50 and $4.50 over the last 25 years. The farm cost in food prices is only .20 per dollar. The rest is transportation, packaging, etc. See the following.


http://www.micorn.org/downloads/News...ood_Prices.pdf

I don’t know about Germany or the Indonesian situation -barley malt and bio-diesel from palm oil are insignificant as a source for biofuels in the US.

Once again, thanks for the information.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 22-07-2007, 04:08 AM
Shenandoah Shenandoah is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8
Bookmark with:
Submit to Technorati Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to StumbleUpon Submit to Yahoo! This Submit to Live Favorites Submit to Google Submit to Facebook
Submit as News to:
Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Hugg Submit to Care2
Default

Corey
Your post is one of opinion with no quantitative backup or references. This doesn't give me any basis for reply.
Paul
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 24-07-2007, 04:38 PM
Corey Corey is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Rochester MN
Posts: 485
Bookmark with:
Submit to Technorati Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to StumbleUpon Submit to Yahoo! This Submit to Live Favorites Submit to Google Submit to Facebook
Submit as News to:
Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Hugg Submit to Care2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shenandoah View Post
Corey
Your post is one of opinion with no quantitative backup or references. This doesn't give me any basis for reply.
Paul
which points do you want links for? I will get them and back it up.

Many of these points are being pointed out by some of the lead research on the Issue in the USA

One of them I from Minnesota where I am from. Some of the points I made were from him.

No, it is not opinion for a good chunk of the points I used.
__________________
We can talk till we are blue in the face, The real impact of change is when we take action based on information we have talked about. So lets do more action to create change.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 26-07-2007, 01:49 PM
Shenandoah Shenandoah is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 8
Bookmark with:
Submit to Technorati Submit to Del.icio.us Submit to StumbleUpon Submit to Yahoo! This Submit to Live Favorites Submit to Google Submit to Facebook
Submit as News to:
Submit to Digg Submit to Reddit Submit to Hugg Submit to Care2
Default

Fair enough
I'm tied up for a day or two but will do as you suggest
Reply With Quote
Reply
Tags: ,




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes