Partial home energy

[kevinc_63366]

Starting to plan for a weekend/retirement home in the country (NE part of Missouri - highly Amish).

The wife and I are already looking at highly efficient homes, currently focused on timber-frame & SIP designs.

I'm starting to refresh my knowledge on PV and Wind systems.

Its silly for us to be "off-grid" from a short-term economic stance - we have power lines running alongside every property we look at; and the local power company will runs lines free to any home greater than 800 sq. ft.

That said, I'd like to minimize my use of coal/gas powered electricity and am willing to buck up the dollars to do so.

Because we are looking in a marginal wind area, class 2 except in the summer, when it degrades to class 1, I'm thinking a combination solar/wind system would be best.

For those who have looked into this, power storage is a big piece of the cost - for that I've contacted VRB Power. They claim they will be looking into the rural home/farm market space within the next 18 months - a time frame that works for us.

Curious if three-way systems are doable with commercially available parts: Wind, Solar, and Grid. In my ideal world, I'd have a small, say 24 hour, battery subsystem that would be primarily charged by wind and solar. When that became depleted, I'd switch over to grid, and/or use the grid to charge when there was neither wind or sunlight and the batteries were low. On the other side of that equation, once the batteries were at full charge, excess power would be fed back into the grid. A 2007 state law requires power companies to accept such input, although my reading is that I would pay retail and be credited something less (that however, is unclear).

Total budget, including a 5KW Pacwind Aeolian wind turbine and a few KW 16-panel tracking solar system is about $50K. Totally not cost-justifiable today (the interest on $50K would pay for any power usage I save), but an acceptable amount to pay for peace of mind.

Thoughts?

Kevin

[Corey]

Weekend home? assuming a second? that in it self is unsustainable in that you just doubled your resource use while only living in it occasionally. Whats wrong with the primary home? what of simply improving or fixing the one you primarily live in?

in regards to PV check out "thin film" solar which may be best for remote location. Any heavy solar in remote locations is going to be extremely energy intensive in comparison.

PowerFilm Solar
PowerFilm Inc. - The worlds most lightweight and flexible solar panels

These were the first to come up when entered in google. If the house is in a shaded area its mute puting solar on the house you may need a remote grid.

Also look into holographic solar in that it does not need to be turned after the sun. just needs to be facing south in general if your in the northern hemisphere.

I would also recommend looking at a "sun frost" refrigeration unit in that it will help reduce the size and cost of the solar needed to operate.

Refrigerators, home compost bins and sustainable living products - Sun Frost

The amount of energy consumed by heating cooling and such is going to reduce the cost of the solar and wind.

If your not big on long showers, look into a "on demand" water heater or "tankless" You save huge amount of energy when you don't use that much hot water. But the energy saving declines when you use a whole lot, for either type.

The key with the tankless is that you only use the energy when actually using it. where the tank is heating all the time and once you run out you have to wait for it to reheat which consumes even more energy. Another drawback to tank is the heat it puts off in the summer which is that much more to reverse with air conditioning if you decide to have that which I don't recommend with solar/ wind. You would be better investing in instillation and Uv reflective windows. With blinds for south side.
Rheem Tankless Water Heaters

I offer these links in that I have researched, being that I have time on my hands, but do not have the financial resources to implement myself. So I give hints to people where to look where they may not have realized where to look before and save them time and the extra energy it would have wasted having multiple people looking for the exact same thing..

[kevinc_63366]

I'm slowly growing an environmental conscience. My current home consume way too much power compliments of a 25-year old hobby that peaked about 4 years ago with the creation of a 5000 gallon salt-water tank illuminated by 7300 watts of lighting and cooled with a dedicated 2.5 ton air conditioner. Its also much larger than we really need, and in a subdivision that freaks when a TV antenna is installed (despite federal laws that over-rule their objections) - much less solar or wind power.

I'm exploring ways to exit the hobby, and looking to live a better, more environmentally friendly, life. That will be a lot easier when I'm out in the country - but that requires retirement, since communiting 93 miles each way would offset home improvements with car degradation (not to mention about a 4 hour daily commute).

[Corey]

If you have the money for that tank then the suggestions I made will be easy to finance. The real kicker is the sunfrost in that by the sites claim they were able to significantly reduce the cost due to the comparison of 90 kwh vs 18 kwh. That the refrigeration unit consumes. Which is one of the top 3 energy users that we can't live without.

refrigeration as a necessity, would be based on following.
Based on current population numbers and such we can't just move west so to speak for more open land and food supply.

The more energy efficient your house the less the cost of solar and wind. Consider using "Instillation board" for instillation in place of the fibrous instillation, in that you can get more instillation in less space.. My father used it and and was able to get his energy use down in the cooling and heating. He is in a remote part as well on a farmstead that he rents out. He built his own home, no contractors.

[kevinc_63366]

Thanks for the SunFrost link.

Current plans are to build a Timber-Frame home using SIPs, many solar design features (including a large sunroom, thermal mass, etc.). The kitchen is even planned with both an electric (summer use) and a wood stove (winter use). With the 35 acres we are currently looking at, we will have our own wood supply, and plenty of space for a large garden. Although public water is available, double cisterns (rainwater and grey water) will be used to recycle the captured water for the garden and as a backup supply if county water fails.

In my current neighborhood, I got letters when I put a kitchen garden in. They didn't have anything to stand on, the "architecture committee" was just throwing around their weight and they later dropped their complaint, but they made one all the same.

Kevin

[kevinc_63366]

I'm rather concerned about the shorter lifetime of thin film units. Did a bit of surfing, and 10 years seems to be about the limit. I'm not going to be able to afford replacing my solar assemblies every 10 years after initial construction.

I can't depend on "advancements" to help either. I've been watching this industry for well over 20 years now, and the advancements have been slow 9about keeping up with inflation. e.g. ~$5/W in the 80's, ~$5/W now, but the $ is worth less).

Kevin

[Bowman]

Hi Kevin,

While I applaud your efforts towards a more sustainable future, multiple home ownership has to be one of the most self-indulgent and unsustainable ambitions.

I think you should seriousley reconsider.

Bowman

[Patrick]

A good size to shoot for would be 300 sq. ft. or less per occupant. So if there are 3 of you, your maximum would be 900 sq. ft. This is based on home size's impact on your ecological footprint. It will also reduce the number of solar panels you need to power your house.

Sustainable City

[kevinc_63366]

Originally Posted by Bowman

Hi Kevin,

While I applaud your efforts towards a more sustainable future, multiple home ownership has to be one of the most self-indulgent and unsustainable ambitions.

I think you should seriousley reconsider.

Bowman

Sorry Bowmin, but my choices are simple: Start working towards a more sustainable lifestyle now, including building towards a sustainable retirement lifestyle, or simply postpone that for 15 years. I opt to learn about better ways to do things now and hopefully incorporate some of the behaviors into my current lifestyle with a long term goal of reducing my, and my families, impact on our environment. Land prices prevent me from moving from my classic subdivision lifestyle to rural living now without having to commute 90+ miles each way to work - and the courts have imposed a lifetime alimony to my ex-wife which requires me to work and earn my executive income until normal retirement age.

So, I can do something now, or nothing. I opt to do something.

[Corey]

Originally Posted by kevinc_63366

Sorry Bowmin, but my choices are simple: Start working towards a more sustainable lifestyle now, including building towards a sustainable retirement lifestyle, or simply postpone that for 15 years. I opt to learn about better ways to do things now and hopefully incorporate some of the behaviors into my current lifestyle with a long term goal of reducing my, and my families, impact on our environment. Land prices prevent me from moving from my classic subdivision lifestyle to rural living now without having to commute 90+ miles each way to work - and the courts have imposed a lifetime alimony to my ex-wife which requires me to work and earn my executive income until normal retirement age.

So, I can do something now, or nothing. I opt to do something.

Wow that Is the first I ever heard of the court requiring someone to continue working in order to pay an alimony to retirement. Is it because you have alot of money to begin with? The most I ever heard of is a percentage of the current assets at the time of divorce. I come from A broken home. One of the many reasons for never hooking up.

I think we wouldn't object it it was just one house at a time its when you have two and the other is not being lived in. and the excessive space meaning extra materials and energy to upkeep.

I think the other part is where is the sacrifice ? to be fair with other people that are dieing so you and I can live in excessive comfort.

PS the ten year life span is to get you to keep buying it is what keeps are artificial economy going. which requires people to constantly buy stuff. They could build it to last but then it would cut into profit, which violates the first rule of CEO and management (Shall not take any action or make any decisions that reduce profit. So if its got investors or stocks it follows that rule.