Clinton or Obama? Who is your favorite?

[FabianPattberg]

Hi.

Just wanted to start this off topic discussion on who you think will be the new democratic presidential candidate.

Barack Obama or Hilary Clinton?



Any views and / or opinions?

:idea:


Fabian

[Dr. Chris E Obinwa]

It could be anybody's race if racism is kept in the cooler. This is the first time in history if it permits that America and Americans will see real change. This might be an era for perpetual change and progress in America.

Dr. Chris E. Obinwa

[FabianPattberg]

I think you are right. I have heard some the speech from Obama 2 days ago when he talked about the extent of the racial divide in the US.

That is a very hot topic in my opinion and I dont know how that discussion is being seen in the US. Positive or negative?

Any thoughts?

Regards,
Fabian

[Dr. Chris E Obinwa]

Obama as a matter of fact is making history as far as American politics is concerned. If we may recall the American history, how many blacks have been able to go as far as Obama has in presidential campaign? Race still plays a major role in everything in the developed world especially in Britain and the U.S. You need to be a white to succeed or get a good job. Primarily, blacks have been relegated to the lowest level of life after the famous slave trade. My experiences in the U.S. and Britain are classic examples. How many white men with my type of skill, experience and qualifications will stay without a job? Based on my survey, none.

[Dr. Chris E Obinwa]

Originally Posted by sustainabilityforum

Hi.

Just wanted to start this off topic discussion on who you think will be the new democratic presidential candidate.

Barack Obama or Hilary Clinton?



Any views and / or opinions?

:idea:


Fabian

It could be either of them. But if one believes in miracles, Obama could clinch the victory come the D-day but if racism still has a place in the U.S. as it has always been, then victory will go to Clinton.

Dr. Chris

[rc white]

I am an Australian and although we are technically not a part of the USA the way some people here go on we might as well be the fifty first state.
I hope that the democrat who wins the election will be Hilary Clinton.
Obama it is true has appeal but this appeal is largely illusory.
His constant chanting of a mantra named "change" has no real substance since the way the political system is set up no real change is possible.
Unlike in a parliamentary system a candidate for the US presidency cannot go to an election with a legislative program that they can guarantee to carry out. This is because the executive government has little influence in the legislature, ensuring that the executive cannot overcome the sectional interests that predominate there.
People seem to have forgotten the last time there was a concerted movement against politics as usual in Washington and a desire for "change" yielded Jimmy Carter.
The fact is that Clinton knows everybody in the Washington scene and knows where all the bodies are buried, very important for influence and leverage, whats more she also knows what can and can't be done.
Obama does not have this advantage and would enter office with a completely unrealizable agenda and would quickly be rendered impotent by vested interests.
Another possibility is that Mc Cain could win.
A thing that has not been much discussed is that much of Obamas support comes from states that are not likely to have a majority Democrat vote, i.e. most of their college nominees will be Republicans. This would mean that Obama might win the popular vote but loose the states.
Overall the Americans would be better of with a Clinton who can deliver some real if prosaic benefits instead of an Obama who can only promise impossible dreams, but time of course will tell.

[Corey]

Originally Posted by Dr. Chris E Obinwa

Obama as a matter of fact is making history as far as American politics is concerned. If we may recall the American history, how many blacks have been able to go as far as Obama has in presidential campaign? Race still plays a major role in everything in the developed world especially in Britain and the U.S. You need to be a white to succeed or get a good job. Primarily, blacks have been relegated to the lowest level of life after the famous slave trade. My experiences in the U.S. and Britain are classic examples. How many white men with my type of skill, experience and qualifications will stay without a job? Based on my survey, none.

disabled folks are lower than blacks especially those with deformity, developmental, deaf, mobility, neurological. often times we are lower than animals. especially when seeking damages for wrong doing towards disabled folks. the civil rights of disabled folks has no teeth thanks to a supreme court ruling preventing disabled from getting punitive damages from offenders who break the civil rights law called "Americans with disability act of 1990", "Rehabilitation act of 1974".

So I go for Obama in that of the rights of blacks vs women Obama has more to prove if he actually wins. I also like the fact Obama comes from an average citizens background rising through the ranks, which he has made transparent for folks to look up to see his history of his life which is more than I can say for past candidates.

[Dr. Chris E Obinwa]

Your personal views are good but the fact still remains that anything can happen in politics especially in a decade that brought about the downturn in America's economy due to invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, inflation, medicare/medicad. Yes, there is no doubt that Clinton's name could turn events if it had been played out properly. But Americans have been deceived enough by the old politicians. This is why the call for a 'change' by Obama is unique and it is creating the desired impact in American political landscape.

[rc white]

The point I was making is that race and gender issues aside the set up in the USA will simply brook no major changes to the business as usual set up in Washington.
Although much is made of the powers of the office the presidency of the USA is very weak with regard to internal affairs and withought substantial constitutional reform it will remain so. Given that the current arrangements allow corporate and sectional interests to control the country by means of dividing and concurring the legislature I suspect the necessary reforms will not happen at any time soon.
An illustration of this is the medical system, we have seen the spectacle of candidates going cap in hand to the insurance companies to get a deal on universal health care, and if previous experience is any indicator the congress will be nobled by sectional interests and no bill will get through, it is inconceivable that such a thing should happen in most western democratic countries, but due to the constitutional set up in the USA it does.
In Australia for instance our universal health care scheme was introduced in 1982, an earlier scheme from 1972 was so hacked about by a conservative government that it practically disappeared.
The implementation of this scheme was due to an election promise that was carried out soon after the party was elected and is now considered as a model scheme to be copied by others, including the USA.
The point is that no candidate for the presidency can go to an election with the guarantee that such as scheme can be implemented, and the chances are that any scheme that can get through will be so watered down as to be practically useless.
What all this indicates to me is that whilst a desire for change might be there the mechanism to deliver it isn't, and the thought that some messianic figure is going to come along and transport the country to some sort of Elysian paradise by the power of rhetoric alone is a sad and dangerous delusion.

[Dr. Chris E Obinwa]

Originally Posted by rc white

The point I was making is that race and gender issues aside the set up in the USA will simply brook no major changes to the business as usual set up in Washington.
Although much is made of the powers of the office the presidency of the USA is very weak with regard to internal affairs and withought substantial constitutional reform it will remain so. Given that the current arrangements allow corporate and sectional interests to control the country by means of dividing and concurring the legislature I suspect the necessary reforms will not happen at any time soon.
An illustration of this is the medical system, we have seen the spectacle of candidates going cap in hand to the insurance companies to get a deal on universal health care, and if previous experience is any indicator the congress will be nobled by sectional interests and no bill will get through, it is inconceivable that such a thing should happen in most western democratic countries, but due to the constitutional set up in the USA it does.
In Australia for instance our universal health care scheme was introduced in 1982, an earlier scheme from 1972 was so hacked about by a conservative government that it practically disappeared.
The implementation of this scheme was due to an election promise that was carried out soon after the party was elected and is now considered as a model scheme to be copied by others, including the USA.
The point is that no candidate for the presidency can go to an election with the guarantee that such as scheme can be implemented, and the chances are that any scheme that can get through will be so watered down as to be practically useless.
What all this indicates to me is that whilst a desire for change might be there the mechanism to deliver it isn't, and the thought that some messianic figure is going to come along and transport the country to some sort of Elysian paradise by the power of rhetoric alone is a sad and dangerous delusion.

Yes, I agree with your views completely. But who will be the U.S. president that can carry along both the congress and senate to make the desired change by putting in place mechanisms that are workable in all spheres in the United States? It is really simply very difficult.